Gaye Sanchez-Pizjuan
An interview with Christie Snowden from the series “AWC Oral Histories”
Coming to Spain | AWC | Changing World | Work
Coming to Spain
Gaye, would you please state your name, where you were born, your nationality and your date of birth.
My name is Gaye, really Gabrielle de Rosset Sanchez-Pizjuan, and I was born in Chicago, Illinois in the United States on December 21, 1940.
And why don’t you tell us about how you came to live in Seville.
Well, I was always interested in languages, and I had studied my junior year in France and when I was teaching French and Spanish in a school outside of Chicago, I decided I needed more Spanish to continue teaching. So I went to Madrid to get my masters. That’s how I arrived in Spain. But I was different from other girls who have arrived here. I already knew Spanish.
So before you arrived in Seville, you were living in, you said.
Yes, I was studying. I studied a year in Madrid where I met my husband, Ramon, and he convinced me to come to Seville too and I could get a job at the Strategic Command Air Force Base which was located in Rota but actually you could work in Santa Clara. So I came to Seville the year after I finished the year in Madrid and I got a job substitute teaching at the school in Santa Clara and running the youth activities program in Santa Clara, which meant some days I worked from morning till night teaching and at the Youth Activity Center. So I was involved at the base and I was able to buy products at the base and so I was able to get American products which were not available in Seville at the time.
And when was that?
That that was 1963-64. I came in 1964 to Seville.
So you were how old at the time?
23
And you and Ramon came together to Seville then?
No, he was living here and his family even let me live with his sister. And so I had a place to live. I had a place to work and it all worked out perfectly. But my husband was from Seville.
And how many times have you moved house since you’ve been here?
That’s a good question. We moved when we got married in 1966 to the Canary Islands, where we had one house and then we moved back to Seville in 1989 where we moved to a farm in Alcala de Guadaira which belonged to his family. Then we renovated the house where I’m living now in the center of Seville In 2006.
You said you met Ramon in Madrid? How did you meet
We met on a blind date at the Faculty of Law and where he was doing oposiciones.
Would you like to say anything more about how you arrived here or about meeting him or your first days?
I was very fortunate to be able to live with his sister and so I had no problems. I had all my meals made for me. Everything was done and we had a marvelous social life. In the early 60s, there was a greater difference in class, and I was able to take a peek at the upper class and go on to parties Gypsies would play flamenco guitar, and we would have a great time, but we were always treated. We were invited by well to do people and even had the opportunity of knowing the Duchess of Medinaceli, who was a good friend of my mother-in-law. The Duke who was her bridge partner and they were the bridge champions of Spain. And so I had a peek at various forms of life. Because in those days a maid made 1000 pesetas a month, and so the lower class had less opportunity to spend money shall we say. Seville was not as overrun by tourists as it is today, and the natives more or less took over the bars and restaurants. Now you have to reserve to get a table.
So when you came here did you intend to live here permanently?
It took me a couple of years to decide if I wanted to stay in Spain because it’s a very difficult decision that all of us American girls have had to make when I came over and had a Spanish boyfriend. I knew that I wouldn’t be seeing my family very much if I moved here, so it took me a couple of years to decide. I knew that my husband would not want to live in the States. He was just too Sevillano and so I decided that I could live in Spain because my family likes to travel.
So what did your family think about you staying here?
They were very open minded. It was fine with them.
And did Ramon speak English?
Yes, Ramon and all his family spoke English. His two sisters had been American Field Service students in the states. They spoke fluent English. His mother had lived abroad and spoke 3 languages and was a very cultivated woman, and so my mother-in-law was able to meet my parents and they got along fine and there was no language problem. My father-in-law had died in about 1957, so I never knew him.
So when you arrived here, what would you say was your level of Spanish?
My level of Spanish was excellent because I had already taught Spanish and I had studied a year in Madrid getting my masters in Spanish, so I had no problem with the language. I could dream in Spanish. I didn’t have the problem that many people have today coming over and having to learn Spanish when they get here. That problem I didn’t have.
How did you learn?
I learned it because I had to teach it in a junior high school. I had only taken two years in the university as a second language, as a third language actually. And so I learned as I taught it. And you always learn subjects when you teach them to stay ahead of the students.
Did you continue in Seville, improving your Spanish, either on the street or with classes?
No, never. I just took classes in other subjects. But I must make it clear that we did not live in Seville when we got married in 1966. We went to Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, where I taught school at an American school, and we lived there for 22 years. So I was living in an American atmosphere also as well as a very international atmosphere. Las Palmas was much more modern than Seville, much more ahead of the times. In Seville in 1964 it was unusual for women to wear pants going down the street even. But in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria, which was way down off the west coast of Africa, the foreigners had influence and there were bikinis on the beaches and everything in 1966, so it was not the same as Seville.
What was your second language that you learned?
Well, my first language was French and so then second, my second language was Spanish.
Which was easier to learn, French or Spanish?
Spanish because with a French background, it’s very easy to learn Spanish.
Do you still remember French?
Yes, I practice it. I listen to it on television and I practice it when I can. Yes, and go to France every now and then.
How important do you think learning Spanish was for your new life in here, well, being already fluent in Spanish?
It helped a lot. I see how my friends today struggle because they don’t understand what’s being said and they can’t make telephone calls. I think it really helps. It’s a great advantage when you know Spanish already.
How did you adapt to your new life in Seville, Gaye?
Now remember I came to Seville in 1989, so I had already been in Spain for 22 years, and so I had no problem adapting this to life in Spain because first of all, when I came to Seville, the first thing I did was connect with two old friends that I had here, Carol and Becky, and the first month I went to a luncheon at the AWC and immediately made American friends, and although at the time I was living on a farm in Alcala de Guidaira, I came in and I went into Seville often to see my friends and participate in AWC activities.
So you’re referring to the American Women’s Club of Seville? Fantastic. What was your lifestyle? How was it different to that in your previous home?
You’re talking about previous home is being America or in Las Palmas? Oh well, in America I was a single woman working as a teacher and so it was completely different when I came to Spain. And after being married, being a mother, it was completely different. And of course the lifestyle was much different here in Seville and in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria. We don’t need the car every time, every minute of the day, to go any place. And I loved in Spain being able to walk to things and everything at your fingertips.
So has your impression changed over the years of what you think of Seville?
Oh, I feel I love Seville and I love it more every day, so if it’s changed, it’s changed for the better. I feel that are two Sevilles, the one that I know, the one before 1989 and the one after 1989. The one before 1989 was shabby, the monuments were dirty from pollution and it got its face washed in 1989 when Felipe Gonzalez was president of Spain and decided that we would have the Expo 1992 here in Seville, and from that point on Seville started changing and it’s a new Seville today with a modern airport, a modern train station. They changed all the area along the Guadalquivir River which you couldn’t even get to because of the train tracks and the industries, and they made it a walkway and parks for families. And so Seville has improved in that area. They’ve cleaned the monuments, the. Cathedral now just gleams because it’s been completely cleaned and they don’t allow cars going down Constitution Avenue anymore, so it’s much better for the pedestrians here now in the center, and Seville has improved in the time I’ve been here.
So you’re talking about the World’s Fair that was held in Seville in 1992? So that was quite a few years ago. Do you think Seville is different now than it was then?
No, and that’s when it changed, and now it’s taking advantage of the facilities that were left by the World’s Fair and it’s turned it into university and office space and so Seville is improving in that area. All right, it is has lost a lot of its folklore character, and it’s getting, there are too many McDonald’s and world, what could we say? And big clothing stores, chains that didn’t exist. But before 1989 you couldn’t buy children’s clothes at a reasonable price. You couldn’t get clothes at a reasonable price, but after that, all the big chains like Zara started coming in and it’s much cheaper to buy clothes here, and especially children’s clothes and in some ways life has gotten cheaper in that area. Before if you had to get your clothes, it was cheaper to have your clothes made by a seamstress than to buy them in a store.
So you mentioned that you knew Carol Crisler and Becky, Rebecca Bufana. Way back when, how did you meet them?
We dated together. We met through the social networks in those times. Carol and I, maybe we took a course together. But Carol was already a friend of Becky’s, so the three of us went out with our three future husbands and stayed friends ever since. They were the longest friends I had had in Seville. So we became friends by dating together, by going out together with our husbands.
And how did you meet other people, other than Carol and Becky?
Well, before I moved to the Canary Islands, all my social life was at the Betis Tennis Club, where my husband and I, my future husband and I, would go to dance, and we also played bridge at Pineda. Then I knew Americans through the school where I substitute taught, and sometimes did things with them. I did not have time and I was working all day, and I actually did not have time to join the American Women’s Club and I did not join the American Women’s Club until 1989 when I moved here from the Canary Islands.
So how did your diet change when you arrived in Seville? On the one hand, compared to the Canary Islands and on the other hand, compared to America?
That’s a good question. I did all the cooking because I was married and so we more or less ate the same things that I was used to preparing in the States, but here in Seville you eat a lot more fish than in the States. Fresh fish. I ate more fresh fish and In the states we didn’t have the tapas and I got used to going out having tapas and exploring and having all kinds of strange things like octopus and gained my love of the Spanish Iberian ham, cured ham, which is delicious.
And what did you do in your free time?
I didn’t have free time when I was teaching and raising children, and when I came to Seville in 1989, I was busy all day fixing up our house and getting the house in condition because we had inherited this house in the country, which was in very poor condition. But in the free time I did have, I would come into Seville to the American Women’s Club. And we, my husband and I, also had a season ticket to the Seville Symphony Orchestra, which was just starting at the time, and so we would come in for concerts and other social activities and a lot of bridge. I played a lot of bridge with my husband and met all my Spanish friends through playing bridge at Pineda.
Now your last name is Sanchez-Pizjuan, so that obviously rings a bell here with the football stadium. What is the relationship there?
Yes, I remember the first time I came to Seville and my husband takes me to the stadium and he says the stadium has my name on it, and I looked up and I said you’re right. And I didn’t even know much about soccer football at that time. And he said, this stadium was named for my uncle, who died a week before the first stone was laid and so they decided to name it for him in honor of the over 20 years he had been President of the Seville Football Club. So my husband actually placed the first cornerstone of the Seville football stadium in honor of his uncle.
How have your interests changed over time?
Well, life changes your interests and when I came to Spain, I was a big enthusiast of the guitar and I took a lot of guitar lessons. But then I’ve always been interested in music but when you get married and work and have to take care of children, you don’t have as much time to devote to those things, but my interest has always been people and being with people. And all kinds of music events, but so my interests have not changed that much.
You mentioned you have two children. Can you tell us about them?
Yes, my older son is 51 and does administration work at the Seville University, the architectural university here in Seville and he has two children, 20 and 14, a girl and a boy. And then my second son is called Eduardo and he is 46 and Is a psychologist working with Projecto Hombre. He works with addicts. But he’s a musician on the side and plays a fantastic guitar and just did a gig this weekend with his band in Cabezas de San Juan. After the pandemic, they’re starting to play again so he has this to kind of relieve the tension of his regular work. So he has two children that are 3 and 8, a little boy and a little girl.
So both of your sons live here in Seville?
Yes, I’m very lucky. They live in Montequinto and in Alcala de Guadaira so I I see them almost every weekend.
Do you think being a grandmother in Spain is different than being a grandmother in the States?
No, no. I think. It’s the same. I mean it just depends on how far away you live from your children. I think. I think grandmothers are the same all over the world.
What was your first impression of Seville?
I was swept off my feet with my first impression, because it was with my future husband, Ramon. He took me all to the best places. And walking through the barrio de Santa Cruz when there were no tourist places and going to the Plaza de Dona Elvira and hearing the guitar singers and then Feria alone was enough to sweep me off my feet. My impressions of Seville were excellent because he had a very loving family as well, two loving sisters and his mother, who welcomed me because they were very open to foreigners, having lived outside of Seville themselves.
And has your impression changed over the years?
No, my it’s always been good. I take the bad with the good and accepted. I’ve no, I’ve always loved Seville. No, the answer is no.
What do you miss the most about the States?
My family, I’m the oldest of five children and so, but luckily my family comes. I meet my brothers and sister every year at some place and we’re meeting in France in June and so I see my family every year. But of course I miss, I miss my family. The rest, since now you can get everything you need here. There are no American products I miss. And now I have very few friends in the States now so I am very happy here in Seville. I don’t miss the States very much, no.
Is there anything else you’d like to tell me about adapting to life in Seville?
Well, I think for anybody adapting to life in Seville you must learn the language, because otherwise you can’t interact with the people. And the important thing in Seville is to interact with people and anybody will speak to you on the street or if you’re sitting next to somebody on the bus they’ll speak to you, but if you don’t know the language, it’s difficult to do that. But so that’s my first advice I would give to anybody coming here yet. Learn the language.
And what’s your second advice?
My second advice would be to be patient. Everything takes a long time here and you just get used to that and go with the flow, never be in a hurry, that’s all I can say.
AWC—The American Women’s Club of Seville
Now I’ll ask you some questions about life in the American Women’s Club of Seville. When did you join the Club?
I first joined the Club in 1989. When I arrived, newly arrived from the Canary Islands.
And why did you join the Club?
Because at the time Carol Crisler was very active. She was president and Becky was active and they were my 2 old friends from Seville and so I immediately went to their first luncheon in the fall I arrived, and that was my first event in the Club.
Do you remember where that luncheon was?
It was like in a very nice restaurant behind the Betis Stadium, but I can’t remember the name right now.
And what was your first impression of the Club?
Oh well, everybody learned my name immediately and welcomed me, and I felt here I have my future friends in Seville.
Do you remember the next event that you went to after that first luncheon?
The next event was probably Thanksgiving because I’d arrived in the fall and so at the time we were a very small group of ladies and we held things like that in private homes. So I think Thanksgiving and that was important for me because here in Spain they don’t celebrate Thanksgiving and so I felt very lucky to be with them at that celebration.
Do you remember if partners and kids were invited or was it just ladies for Thanksgiving?
I think partners were invited and it was a potluck type thing with the turkeys being made by the hostess, yes.
Let’s move on to talk about the different groups within the American Women’s Club of Seville. Were you involved in any of the different clubs, the subgroups let’s say?
Subgroups. Well, my first subgroup of course was the Book Club and that has formed an important part of my life ever since I first joined, and it’s not only great for discussing books, but we discussed life at the same time, so the subgroup would be the Book Club. And that’s about the only subgroup I belong to.
And any other committees that you belong to?
Committees. Well, of course I did have positions In the club itself. My first position, the year after I arrived was Vice President and then I worked on various projects and then I became more or less the photographer of events, and I kept a scrapbook of the events in the Club, and so I was the unofficial photographer for many years. That was kind of a subgroup. And then I was Treasurer. I was in charge of Charity. I worked on charity for a year and my last main job with the Club was being the Librarian. We had a marvelous library in Barbara Guidera’s school on Calle Harinas, and I would go. It was a library on the honor system, and people would check in and check out. And I just kept things in order. But that was my last job until the library had to close because the center was taken over by another organization. And so at the moment I’m not doing any committee work?
So as the Librarian of the American Women’s Club library at the Centro Norte Americano on the Calle Harinas, what were the dates that you did that?
That’s a good question. I must have started being Librarian about 1995 until, or no, I take that back, maybe closer to 2005 I started really, because I was living in Seville by then, and I moved to Seville in 2006 to the present house that I live and then I would go every week to the library and so I started unofficially in 2005 until right before the pandemic when we had to close the library and so that was 2020, 2021.
You’ve been Vice President, you’ve been unofficial photographer and you’ve been Librarian, is that right?
Right. And I was Treasurer in 1992.
So let’s think back. What was it like going to a board meeting back then?
I don’t remember the board meetings very much. We did all our communicating by telephone and the board meetings were very informal, usually in a hotel. And we would just get a little corner and order a drink and have our meeting. They were very informal, yes.
And as far as charity in the Club, what can you tell me about that?
When I was doing charity, we raised our money mainly by raffles and things like that. We hadn’t started the book sales. So I was living in Alcala de Guadaira at the time and so I would go to the social services in Alcala and find families in need. And I would find what specific thing they needed, like a washing machine. And the Club, the American Women’s Club, would pay for the washing machine or whatever they needed And that’s how I did the charity. The charity has changed immensely since then. We’ve gotten much better ways of raising money, and we are now supporting organizations that we didn’t know about when I did charity, so I must take my hat off to the people who are running the charity today.
So what year did you do charity?
It must have been around 1994.
And were you the only person working on charity?
Yes, I was the only person.
And did the AWC have any official charity groups that they supported, or just the ones that you found?
Yes, we had official groups but I didn’t make the decisions about where the money went and you will probably find in the old newsletters the names of those charities.
So how did the AWC raise money, the raffles you said?
The raffles. I can’t remember any others; we always had a big Christmas raffle. And other little raffles at lunches and events. But I can’t remember any. We hadn’t started the book sales yet. That’s always the good way of making money. But we’ve evolved very much since the old raffle days.
How did the raffle work at the Christmas party?
Yes, there were two raffles at the Christmas party. First of all, we had a raffle not to make money, just for fun, and we had would have a raffle for the Christmas basket and you would bring a contribution to the Christmas basket. Then you get a free raffle ticket for that. At one time we would get very generous contributions and even overnight stays and places and had a fantastic raffle list for Christmas, and so we would sell in the month prior to the Christmas party and at the Christmas party we would sell those tickets and that’s where we made most of our money for the year. And for the raffle, we would draw the number at the Christmas Party itself.
Back in those days, were half of the dues that the American Women’s Club of Seville members paid to become a member, was 50% of that money given to charity back then?
I can’t remember.
Can you tell us about the newsletters please?
The newsletters. Well, these were the days before even photocopying. We would Xerox them, we would type them out by hand, the poor newsletter editor had to type the newsletter out by hand and then Xerox it off, and then she would have a little committee that would help fold them, address the envelopes and put on the stamps and mail them to every member every month. So it was a very difficult process. I think the newsletter editor in the 80s and 90s had the most difficult job, the most time consuming job of the Club. Then we got into photocopying, which was easier. Now of course we are completely paperless as today it’s all on the Internet.
What do you remember about being Treasurer?
Yes, it was in 1992 when the exposition was here, the International Exposition. Now 1992, yes, I remember being Treasurer and just keeping the books by hand. And getting money deposited in the bank and then keeping everything, keeping the books by hand. I don’t know if any of these old books existed, but everything was done by hand, and luckily I had no problem with the bank because I have Spanish nationality, dual nationality, so I have no problem getting on the account but it was very simple. A very simple job. It was mainly the money we got in was through membership and through charity things and so you just take the money and deposit it and then write checks. That was all.
So you were involved way back then in the Book Club. Do you remember what other kind of clubs or groups there might have been?
Well we had some groups. We had people who would organize excursions outside of Seville that people would take much similar to what we do today, but in those days we would carpool it out and go and visit a place and then other things we did we would go to, I think we went to if there were a cultural event going on, we would organize a group to go together. But that’s about it.
Do you remember any of those cultural events?
Not right now.
So you mentioned today we’re completely paperless. Everything is electronic. If you read in the newsletter about an activity that was going to happen, how did you reserve to go to that event?
Yes, in those days everything was done by phone. Everything was done by phone and so it was very difficult to organize last minute events the way we do today. Sometimes somebody can say oh we want to do such and such a thing and if it wasn’t on the calendar, but if they want to do it, they just go through the President and arrange an evite and everybody can respond immediately, even though the event only takes place two weeks hence. It was very difficult in those days. You had to organize everything at least one month in advance, so it would be included in the newsletter and then all responses were made by telephone.
Other than Becky and Carol, who do you remember meeting sort of back in the beginning?
Well, I worked a lot with Jacqui Kowalsky. I worked with her, under her, when she was President and I was on the board when she was President, and of course, my dear Mari Carmen Puig was President and we worked together and those were the two main people I remember working with in the early 90s.
So you mentioned that Becky and Carol were your friends. When you weren’t doing American Women’s Club things with them, were you doing some other activities?
Oh yes, I went with Carol to a lot, lots of concerts. We were both music lovers. Becky was very busy with her used bookshop in the Barrio de Santa Cruz so she didn’t have that much extra time, but I went with Carol to numerous concerts.
How did being a member of the American Women’s Club affect your experience of life here?
Well, I couldn’t live without it, especially being a widow as I am now and I have been since 2006. And most of my friends are in the Club and my social life evolves completely around the events in the Club and it means everything to me.
Did it also mean everything to you, way back when?
Well before I became aware, no. At one point it became less important. For 10 years I was a tour guide from 2000, from 1995 to 2005, I was a tour guide for Elderhostel, and so I was gone a lot and in those ten years I was not able to participate in a lot of events. So at that time I was living in the country and I loved getting out and going around Spain with other Americans. And so the Club took a second, was second in line after my work.
So when you were working with the Elderhostel, which forms part of the Central Norte Americano, it’s a program that they have there. How did you reincorporate yourself into the Club? Was it easy? Was it different? Did you find it changed?
No, it was very easy because I got the monthly newsletters and so there were two seasons of the year when there were no trips and that was winter and summer and for summer we didn’t have any events, except maybe the 4th of July at the consulate. But It was easy to reincorporate because I would keep in touch. I would just sign up for luncheons and keep going. And my friends, I never lost my friends that I had made.
So how does the U.S. Consulate building beside the river relate to the American Women’s Club?
That was our major site of events until they had to give the property back to the Spanish government. And so it was marvelous because we would have a potluck every fall. We would have our Christmas party there. They would have the 4th of July party there, though that was not an AWC event, it was arranged, I think, by the men’s club and other people, but it was an important part of the club for so many years, having all that space to have events. And it was really a godsend when we were not allowed to use it anymore and Barbara Guidera allowed us to use the Centro Norte Americano on Calle Harinas. For many years we held our events there.
What was the Christmas party like at the consulate?
It was great. It was amazing because back then we were allowed to decorate. We had games. We sang. Today the Christmas party is more just like a dinner. But in those days it was just one big party where we socialized a lot, moved around a lot and sang a lot of songs and it and we would have the Secret Santa and have the drawing. It was just more fun because it was our own space and nobody else was there.
And what did you eat?
Oh, I can’t remember but fabulous food because it was food that people brought and there was nothing that was catered. It was all potluck and fabulous. Fabulous.
And the 4th of July parties, which were majorly sponsored by the American Men’s Club of Seville which no longer exists, what were those parties like?
Well, I didn’t go to very many. I only went to a couple, but they were very fun and I would meet a lot of people and it just made you feel good that you could celebrate our national Independence Day outside of Spain. And it’s difficult. I don’t know what they do these days to celebrate it because there is really no place to celebrate it. But it was unique. I miss it, yes.
We talked previously about how your experience, how being a member of the AWC has affected your life recently. How did it affect your life way back then?
Well, it’s always been an important part of my life because at the beginning I was more active and was able to contribute more, and I made so many friends, which I still have today, and just knowing these friends now, for 30 years, it seems impossible how time has passed, but it’s always been an important part of my life even though I had a lot of more things on the side than I do today.
And what do you think you have brought to the AWC?
I’ve always tried to be welcoming to new members. I have always tried to help out when I was needed. When I was able to, I had the board positions. I continue to work as photographer at as many events as I attend and just being welcoming to new people, I think is the important thing for us old members to do.
Was Ramon, your husband, able to participate in very many AWC events, or did he choose to or not choose to?
Well, I always had to convince him first. We always went to the Christmas party. And he always came home saying what a good time he had. And that was about the only party he would go to. I can’t remember any others right now.
Do you think it’s important that it’s a club for women?
Yes, we need something that we can do and be with other women and it’s important, I think it’s extremely important that it’s a women’s organization. We do women’s things and there are certain events that just women are allowed to attend. I think that’s important. We have to isolate ourselves every now and then from our male friends and partners.
You mentioned earlier that you were the unofficial photographer. Where could we find those pictures that you took?
That’s a good question. Kathy Sherretts digitalized all the photos I took and all the other photos that were taken. And they are on the AWC website today. [See https://awcseville.com/anniversaries/] You can find them. Now the original photographs I was given back and they said you can throw them if you want, but I will tell you I have them stored in my house.
So previously, the American Women’s Club published a little book that had everybody’s telephone number in it. The AWC doesn’t currently publish those because we’re paperless. How do you feel about that?
Well, we actually stopped publishing those before we became paperless for one reason, that one member’s husband pointed out, that it was a little dangerous to have this book published and given out so freely because it might fall into the wrong hands and be used incorrectly. So we actually stopped publishing it before we went paperless, but maybe we did become paperless the same year we stopped publishing it. Was that at the time that we became paperless, but more or less at the same time we started publishing it online and unfortunately that’s the way it has to be in the modern times because it has to be a private list.
Can you remember one particular event that you went to through the years that was just outstanding?
I think the Christmas parties were the ones that I had the most fun at. When we had them at the American Consulate we had a group of English people especially who were great party people and great organizers and the husbands took part in the organization as well. Our friend Marion, who passed away recently, Marion Isle and her husband Phil, they organized the parties a couple of times and they were they were so much fun to go to.
How has the American Women’s Club changed?
Well, that’s a good question. The American Women’s Club, when I first became a member, was a group of women who lived permanently or semi permanently in Seville, but Seville was their home base, and so all of our communication was done by newsletter and phone. Gradually through the years, especially when we became paperless, we started having members that lived in other places and came here occasionally or semi permanently but still were not permanent residents here. Today I would say that many of our members do not even live in Seville. And they are thinking of coming to Seville or they’re going to be coming or they use the Club, especially the chat that we have, to get information and it’s freely given by the members that can give the information. I think the Club has changed from people that you knew 90% of the other members because they would come to the luncheons but to a club where we have over 200 members and maybe you know half of them if you’re lucky, because of the subgroups of mothers with young children have who have their activities and can’t come to the luncheons that I go to, but the Club has become focused very much on helping people with their problems through the chat and giving information of events through the chat. And it has changed from a group of friends to a group of Americans that are based in Seville, that have different interests, that the club unites them this way.
Let’s talk about activities that your children went to when they were children.
My children grew up in the Canary Islands, so a question would be activities my grandchildren went to. I have taken them to both the Christmas party and the Easter party. They’re very well organized and they have loved participating, but unfortunately my grandchildren do not speak English and so they weren’t completely able to interact as well as the English speaking children, but I think that is a very important part of the club, the children’s activities.
And how do you see The American Women’s Clubs built in the future?
I think it’s going to continue more or less the way it is. I mean it, if everything will be done with all the information on the Internet, through the chat, I think it’s evolved, it’s reached a point in its evolution that we can function on Zoom, we can function on the Internet, and we have as many subgroups as ever. We have groups for the movies. We have groups for the children’s activities. We have groups for cultural tours. We have so many subgroups that there is interest, there is something for everybody, and I think if it will change in any way, they’ll just have more activities, that’s all.
If you could make one suggestion to The American Women’s Club as far as how to make sure the Club itself heads in the right direction, what advice would you give the Club?
I would just say to continue the way you’re doing. I think the club leaders today are doing an excellent job. They’ve brought us into the 21st century. And I just say keep up the good work and get people involved. The important thing is to get people involved and continue exploiting people’s talents so all the talented people in the Club can participate.
Before we finish talking about The American Women’s Club, what else would you like to add?
I just want to commend the leaders of the Club today. I think they have done an excellent job of bringing us through the pandemic and getting us organized on Internet and things that we older members would be helpless to do. We have this new young blood that has come to us, that we are very lucky that they have decided to devote so much time to the Club and I just want to take the time now to thank them for all the time they give us.
Changing World
So let’s talk about life in Seville and how it’s changed. How do you think it’s changed since you came to Seville?
Well, since I first came to Seville in ‘64 and even in ‘89, the second time that I came back to Seville, it’s changed in its communication. There are the highways around Seville. It’s easier to get in and out of Seville. The public transport has improved so much, but it has a long way to go. The public transport in Seville is considered one of the worst in Spain. There are parts of Seville that aren’t connected to other parts and that’s what they’re working on now. But Seville has put a lot of money into restoring its monuments over these years and done a good job of attracting tourism. We’ve got fabulous new hotels that are being built, that they are building them with the eye of attracting conventions to our city and making it a capital of people not just to visit to go to the coast, but to stay here and make side visits to Granada, Cordoba and so forth. I think Seville is losing a lot of its charm that it had when there weren’t so many people on the streets but you have to take that if you want the people to be prosperous because when I moved to Seville there was over 25% unemployment here and now it’s shrunk to about 17 or 15%, so you have to think of the good of the people when you have the changes that take away from the charm of the city itself.
And what about healthcare?
I am a fervent supporter of the public health care because I have had very good luck. I’ve had two hips replaced and I have had the best surgeon in the world here. But you have to learn to be patient. And, but that’s even with private healthcare. You, you can’t see a specialist the next day. You have to wait a certain amount of time, but for me, healthcare, the public healthcare I have been very well taken care of. There are a lot of people that criticize it but I myself have am extremely happy with it and it took good care of my husband when he was in ill health. So I have nothing but good things to say about it.
How do you think the restaurants and bars have changed?
Well, they’ve gotten more expensive, but we have much more to offer. Many more kinds of cuisine. At the beginning, Sevillanos were very closed. They only want they only wanted Andalusian food, but now they are opening themselves to Chinese, Thai, Hindu, all kinds of different foods. You can find a restaurant for every taste of Seville now and there’s something for every taste. You can’t go wrong. The restaurants here are excellent.
What about crime? Do you think Seville is a safe place to live?
When I first started my tours with Elderhostel in 1995, we did have to deal with purse snatching and things like that. By the time I left Elderhostel in 2005, we had absolutely no problems with our visitors. Oh, every now and then you will have a member report that she’s had her wallet taken or something taken, but this is an exception. Crime has gone way down, at least in the center of Seville since I moved here. But you always have to be on your guard.
What about cultural events, things like museums, theater, do you think that’s changed a lot?
Well, when I first came to Seville, there was just a very small orchestra, but the present orchestra was started in about 1988 and it’s excellent and we can really be proud of our orchestra. And now since 1992 when we had the theater of the Maestranza Seville we always had the Lope de Vega Theater where a lot of important cultural events took place. But the Maestranza now has a fantastic opera season. It has dance performances all year round. They have jazz, they have the regular program, classical music program of the orchestra itself. It has so much going on that we’re so lucky and we have the concerts in the summer at the Alcazar Gardens at night every night and the cultural scene has improved since I first moved here. There’s also theater that goes on and there’s something going on every night almost.
So do you think the quality of life is good in Seville?
Absolutely, especially because you can walk anywhere or get a public transportation anywhere you want to go and it’s just easy to get things and you can get anything you want here in Seville now. It’s excellent quality of life, yes.
You mentioned earlier that what you miss most about the States are the family that are there? How often do you visit?
I was in the States three times last year, but that was unusual. I visit every time there’s a family event, like a like a wedding or a big birthday. So some years I don’t go at all and other years I go once or twice. It just depends on what’s happening in my family.
Do you think it’s important to you to maintain those connections with those people in that place where you grew up?
Oh the place where I grew up I have lost. Most of my friends have died frankly. I keep connections with my high school friends where I grew up but there are very few now left. And of course my family, all of my family. My siblings are still living and so we talk on the phone thanks to WhatsApp all the time and have a family Zoom every two or three months.
What’s your opinion about the Holy Week, Easter Week, the Semana Santa in Seville?
It’s a mixed opinion. Since I live in the very center of Seville, I have to be very careful going out when the pasos are going out because then I can’t get back to my house. I am a little old now to enjoy the multitude of people on the streets during Holy Week to enjoy the pasos, so you really have to rent a seat along the way, because otherwise for older people it’s very difficult to take the crowds. But I love going to the churches and seeing the images and the pride of the hermandad that is with their images and how they take hours of their time to get them ready for Holy Week and carry their images through the streets of Seville. It’s an extremely important part of the life of the city. And I respect it. And I put up with the crowds because it’s such an important part of the life here.
Has your family been involved in any one church in particular here?
No. My family here was not involved in the churches, no.
What can you tell me about Seville’s April fair?
That’s my favorite time of year because I love horses and I love horsemanship and I love the dresses and I love the whole atmosphere of the fair and what can I say. I miss going to it with my husband and dancing sevillanas with my husband, but I still like to go and at least enjoy the atmosphere because it’s my favorite time of year.
So you dress up when you go to the April fair?
Yes, I do. I wear the dress and I don’t dance the way I used to because I used to dance sevillanas quite well, but since my hip operation I can’t dance them as well as I did.
So which do you think has changed more throughout the years, the Semana Santa or the Feria?
The Semana Santa has always been crowded, but it’s much more crowded now than it used to be. And the fair for me is doable. I mean it’s not too crowded. You can still enjoy the fair and you still have your individual casetas and you’re lucky if you have people that invite you to them, and they have both more or less, both the fair and the Holy Week, have more or less kept their true essence, yes.
Were you here during any major events or transitions in Seville’s history?
In Seville’s history. Well, of course, the transition itself between the Franco dictatorship, which ended in 1975, I wasn’t here. But I was here and during the transition I was in the Canary Islands. But the most important event I have taken part in was the 1992 World Exposition and even my son got a job there and we went a lot to see it and my family came over from America to see it, and for me that was the event that changed modern Seville.
You’re talking about the World’s Fair in ‘92, right? What about with the 1975? Things might have been different between before and after that period. Do you think so?
For the average person, no, I don’t think your average life was changed that much. It changed for certain people, for example journalists. I was very happy for journalists who could finally tell what was truly happening in Spain. It probably changed for businessmen, I don’t know. It probably changed the way of doing business. I’m not sure. I was just a school teacher and so nothing really changed in my life when Franco died, because we carried on. Maybe in the Spanish system things changed, but no, it’s a transition I admire. The Spanish perhaps they did not. One of the agreements of the transition was not to start punishing people for what they had done during the Franco times and that got us through the transition fairly safely, but many people were hurt because people who had done bad things were not punished, but otherwise we could have been worrying about that for years, and now the Socialists are of course digging up bones and doing going through what they call the la memoria and which is important too for the people that suffered.
What can you tell me about the American air bases? You’ve been, you’ve not been, you know people, you don’t?
See, I was here in 1964 when they had the Americas Strategic Command Base and these American air bases I worked there as both a substitute teacher and as the Youth Activities Director in Santa Clara and I found that the bases were always well accepted and gave a good boost to the local economy and started bringing modern things to Spain as well. The Americans that came brought their products and their way of life and I think Spain benefited through the air bases.
So the air bases there are two of them, right?
But there’s one in Zaragosa and there’s one in San Pablo in Seville and then there is a Rota base, which is mostly naval, but there are a lot of airplanes too.
What struck you as interesting about life at that point or regarding those air bases?
Well, Spain until President General Eisenhower came over in the early 60s Spain was very isolated because they had not taken part in the second World War and were not part of the Marshall Plan. So Spain was very, very isolated. And so when Eisenhower came over to Spain and talked to Franco and Franco agreed to have the American bases in Spain, it really was an important date for stopping the isolation of Spain as far as Europe goes.
Before we start talking about the changing world in Seville, is there anything else that you’d like to add?
Just that I will always consider myself an American, though I’ve lived most of my life in Seville and I have two passports, but I think that there’s something, I never feel Spanish, but I feel a part of Seville because foreigners are welcome to take place in part in every phase of Spanish life here. And I’ve never felt like an outsider and I just want to say that I’m very pleased with my life here in Seville and want to emphasize again the importance of the American Women’s Club in my life.
Work
So you’ve mentioned several times that you were a teacher. Would you mind giving me a little chronological rundown of what your work experience has been?
Well, I started out as a teacher in the States teaching French and Spanish. But when we were married and went to the Canary Islands, there was an American school there and I was hired as a first grade teacher. So I taught elementary school for 20 years in the American School of Las Palmas. And so it was very fulfilling time and teaching children to read and write and teaching Spanish children English because there were some children that came into my classes with very little English. It was a very fulfilling time of my life. Very, very stressful. Raising a family and teaching, but it was very fulfilling.
So that’s when you were a teacher and then you moved on?
No, once I came back to Seville in 1989, I never taught again, officially, never. So that was my teaching career, very short, only 20 some years although I taught in the States too. But when I came to Seville, there was so much to do because we lived outside of Seville on a small farm. There was so much to do there that I didn’t continue my teaching.
So what other work experience did you have other than teaching?
Well, then I became a member of the American Women’s Club, and in 1994 they put out a call for tour guides, people that knew Spanish and English and were willing to travel all around with Americans and so then in 1995 I applied to Elisa Guidera who was in charge at the time and applied, and I was hired immediately and started my 10 years experience. Both in the spring and in the fall, I would take people around Spain as more or less of accompanying a guide because everywhere I went, we had the regular guides, so it was extremely fulfilling experience, very good, good times.
Any more work experience you’d like to share with us?
No, since I stopped my Elderhostel tours in 1995, I mean in 2005, I was officially retired because I turned 65 and in Spain, if you work after you’re 65, you don’t get your pension. And so I did continue with Eldershostel for at least one trip and then the pension people said you were retiring and we’re taking back the pension money we gave you. I decided, well why continue working? So I stopped working. And so I just devoted my time to doing the American Women’s Club library. That was my experience as a librarian. That was my last work experience.
How would you sum up your experience as being a member of the American Women’s Club of Seville?
Well, it’s been a lifesaving experience. I mean, you feel at the beginning when I helped out and had jobs in the Club, I felt very fulfilled helping out and making friends and just having experiences with people and making connections and knowing people for so many years. Now that I’ve known people in the club since 1989 and that’s over that’s about 20, 30 years I’ve known people so it’s been a marvelous experience.
Is there anything that you’re particularly proud of when it comes to your involvement in the Club?
Well, my years of work as a librarian, I think I’m proud of because that was a rather a time consuming job, but it was easy and it was something I could do whenever I wanted to. But I guess I could be proudest of taking care of the library and taking pictures at events and just trying to be welcoming to the new people.
So do you think you made a good overall decision in coming to Seville?
Absolutely no question about it. I went to the States last year for a month to dog sit in a house near Jacksonville, Florida in a place called, I can’t remember the place anyway, just to the South, and I experienced American life. I had a car, a house, a pool, everything I wanted. But after the month of living in the States, I realized I had made the right decision to marry a Spaniard and live in Seville and raise my children in Spain because of the quality of life and the people I’ve met here.
Do you ever regret coming here?
I never regret it now. Never.
If you had the option, would you like to return back to America?
Somebody asked me that when I became a widow and absolutely no, no question. This is my home.
Is there anything else that you would like to add about any subject that we’ve touched or not touched today?
I think you touched on almost everything and I just hope that I’ve been able to make a good contribution to the oral history of the American Women’s Club and Seville.
How has it felt for you to participate in this project?
Well, I feel as if when I’m no longer here, maybe my voice will still be here and people will know things that they didn’t know about Seville and the Club because they weren’t even born yet.
Gaye, thank you so much for participating with me today. It has been lovely talking to you.
Christie, it’s been my pleasure. Thank you.