Mari Carmen Puig
An interview with Christie Snowden from the series “AWC Oral Histories”
Coming to Spain | AWC | Changing World | Work
Coming to Spain
Mari Carmen, could you please give us your full name and tell us where and when you were born and your nationality?
I’m Mari Carmen Puig. I was born in England. My date of birth is 1951, September the 9th. I was born in a town called Basingstoke in Hampshire. When I was 21, I came to Spain because I do have Spanish background; my grandfather was Spanish. So I was interested in visiting the family. We are mainly from Valencia, but also Seville. So we did have a friend who was living in England, who was living in Seville. So one of my stops was to come and visit him, and what happened was, well, you know, two months later I was married to him. So that’s how it happened. I landed in Seville and yeah, loved it. When I came to Seville, what I can remember is the blue sky, the palm trees, and it was just magical for me. I knew I was where I should be. It was like I was being drawn to Seville suddenly, and I was happy. So that’s how I came to be in Seville. We actually got married in England, and we got married in Spain. So that’s really how I came to Seville.
You said your grandfather was Spanish. Was he from Seville?
No, he was from Valencia, and he left during the war here. When he was 17, he got involved with, as they did, the youngsters got involved with a few protests and he left and he went first to France and then he ended up in England and never came back to Spain. He ended up being a chef, and he worked in some very good places. He got married to an Irish woman, and then my dad was born, and my dad looked very much like my grandfather. When I was about one and a half, he came to live with us, and he died. So since I was born, I always knew there was something because I was given Maria as my Christian name, Maria Carmen. When we visited Spain, I loved it when I was little. My sister didn’t like the food. She didn’t like the bullfights. I did. So I think I was meant to be here, and that’s really my story.
So do you have a Spanish passport as well because of your grandfather?
No. I had a Spanish passport because I married my Spanish husband.
When you moved here, did you move directly into your house here in Santa Clara?
Not this one. He had a different house here. Then we got married. This is the third one I’ve lived in here in Santa Clara. It’s a very nice area. Before, it was for the military that were here in Spain, because I think they worked or they had a base near the airport in those days. In fact, there was a member of the Club, Joann de Kanter. Her husband was like the project manager and helped build these houses. He’s actually Mexican-American, and we became good friends. And she was a really good member of the Club in those days and did a lot for the Club.
So was your husband working at the time?
My husband, he’s a businessman, so he had different businesses.
And so you moved here way back when you were 21, you said, right?
I was 21.
And you’ve lived here in Santa Clara the whole time since you were 21, right? What did your family think about you coming to Spain?
My father was delighted. And then, as the years went by, my mother was delighted because she got a couple of holidays in hot, warm weather. And yeah, they were quite happy. I think maybe it was a little bit of a shock to them. I was only 21, but I settled in.
Did you know Spanish when you came here?
No. I might have known just a few—gracias, por favor. My father taught me tengo hambre. It was one of the words he had learned.
So how did you learn Spanish?
Actually, I did have a problem with my eyes when I got pregnant, and I wasn’t able to study Spanish. So I learned Spanish really talking to the bread man, the milkman, the tata that lived with us. Although when I had my children, I spoke to them in English. Paco knew English.
So you and Paco spoke in English between the two of you?
Spanglish actually. He’s Spanish, so if he was saying anything emotional, or especially with the children, it had to come out in Spanish. I think they’ve got some wonderful words to express themselves sometime. But yeah, a mixture.
Did you find that learning Spanish was easy?
Was it easy? I think when you live in the country, it’s easier and you’re surrounded by Spanish people. And I remember one day I was watching a film on the TV and I thought, oh my God, it’s in Spanish. It’s in English, I said. It’s in English. And then I suddenly realized, no, it was Spanish. I suddenly could understand Spanish. And that’s how it happens. You know, your mind tells you that you understand everything. I didn’t ever speak it perfectly, but I understand everything.
How important do you think it is to learn Spanish for people who come here in this new way of life?
I think it’s very important, extremely important, because if you’re going to live in a country, you really want to have that communication and understand more the people that you’re living with, so I think it’s very good. In those days when I came, everyone wanted to practice their English on me. And that was another way that I found that when I was with people who knew a little English, they wanted to speak with you in English. But today, I think it’s very important that you learn the language.
You mentioned that you were pregnant. Do you want to say a little bit about your daughters?
My daughters, yes. I’ve got two daughters. There’s 16 months between them. Macarena, she lives here. And Mari Carmen lives in England. They both have two children each, a boy and a girl each.
Do your two girls speak English and Spanish? And do your grandchildren speak English and Spanish?
Well, my grandchildren speak English that live here. They go to an English school. And my girls speak, of course, English and Spanish. But the ones in England, which I get very angry with my daughter, Mari Carmen, because she doesn’t speak Spanish to her children. Whereas I always spoke English to my two and they are bilingual. But she’s a little bit lazy there, I think. I think it’s important.
Mari Carmen, how did you adapt to your new life in Seville?
Well, when I married Paco, I married a tata. He had this lady looking after him, like a housekeeper. And she really taught me how to behave, what was expected of me, the food. She was a great cook. So I adapted, and I don’t have any problem with food, that’s the problem. I like everything.
So was your lifestyle really different here compared to where you lived before?
Yes, I think so, especially with the food and the things that are expected of you. It was a different culture in those days. I think today it’s more equal. I mean, I was married to a Spaniard, so you fit into a Spanish world. There are lots of people who come and live, and they don’t have that; they’re not that experienced. So, a lot of our friends were Spanish, and they did things differently.
Do you remember anything in particular?
Maybe they ate at lunchtime their big meal. I remember that one. What can I think of differently? I’m trying to go back now because it’s been a long time. I just fitted in very well with everything. I think you’ve got me there.
So you mentioned that your first impression of Seville included blue skies, palm trees. Do you think that impression has changed over the years?
Well there are less palm trees for a start. The blue sky is always there. I travel back to England twice a year so I love it when I come back and it’s just there’s a smell so you arrive and it’s not so much cologne. That was one thing I used to smell when I came to Spain. It was the cologne and the cigars and Ducados cigarettes. It was that smell you would smell when you stepped into Spain. You don’t get that today because people don’t smoke so much. Ducados were that black tobacco. Yes, it had a strong smell about it. Today you’ve still got that warmness. I mean, the sunshine does make a difference to people’s characters. And I’ve just spent three months in England and although I was there for my grandchildren, the weather, everyone’s very, not miserable, but they’re always thinking, oh, if only the weather was a bit better. And you arrive here and it’s just, it makes you feel warm and happy. People are happy. It’s got very busy here in Seville, that’s the only problem. Too many cars, too many people. In the pandemic, everything was silent in the center. The birds sang and that was magical. I remember we’d go out and have tapas and you’d sit near the river and you would hear the horse and cart coming along and that was all you could hear. And it was lovely, it was a sort of very quiet. But now it’s busy, busy all the time.
Did you know anyone before you moved here when you were 21, other than Paco of course?
Paco, and I had one family member who, well, a few family members, but I was getting to know them. My first friend was Sara, Sara Puig. She had the same married name as me. Sara Puig Troupe, yes. Her husband was Puig. My husband was Puig. They came from Cordoba, his family. But her letters came to my house. We lived in the same street because the postman can easily make a mistake seeing Puig and knowing me. And he brought the letter to me, and Paco said, I don’t think this letter is for you. He said, it’s got another number on it. I’m taking it down there. And he met Sara. And Sara, in turn, invited him over to meet me. And it was because of her, she invited me to the American Women’s Club. She also said that in Santa Clara, when she arrived, she was walking around Santa Clara and she suddenly heard English speaking. There were two Americans, and it was Sherry Busby, and she was the president of the American Women’s Club, and Sara sort of grabbed them and said hello. They invited her to the American Women’s Club, and that’s how it is. It’s like a chain. And I remember the first day, well, Sara, I’d only been here three years. I hadn’t met anyone English speaking. And so when she said, “I’ll invite you to this luncheon.” Unfortunately, she couldn’t go, but I still went. And I still remember there was, I was a bit nervous, and I walked in and there was a Spanish lady called Maribel Dils. She was hospitality. And I walked in, and she came straight up to me and she said, “Hello, are you new?” And she made me feel so relaxed and welcomed. That was the beginning of the American Women’s Club for me. I shall always remember that moment. Changed my life.
So other than the American Women’s Club, how did you meet people for socializing when you arrived?
Before the American Women’s Club, I was part of my husband’s group of friends. So, that’s how I socialized. As soon as the American Women’s Club came along, I had two small children, and you just realized that there are people around you in the Club with small children too. So you’d have like a little get-together with the children, coffee. The good thing about the American Women’s Club is that you belong to it, and then suddenly you make your own little groups and friends. You meet them socially, depending on what you need. And we had children the same age, and we would meet. There were lots of groups in those days. There was a cooking group. One of the members used to cook, and we’d go to different houses. We’d have the food, we would pay her for the ingredients, and it was social because we all sat around, learned what she was cooking. It was a great boozy lunch that we’d have together. Yeah, great.
It was run by Ruth Roberts.
That’s right, correct. They also had like a Cordon Bleu, they called it, group with husbands and wives, and they’d take a theme like Mexican food. Then one of the members would open up the house and you’d go with the husbands, and each member would choose. They’d make a menu and you would do the starter, and it would all be like a theme, Mexican, for instance. And that was quite interesting.
Do you remember hosting that here at your house?
No, I didn’t.
Do you remember some of the ladies who did?
Yes, there was someone near here called, what was her name? She was an old member here and lived near Santa Clara. Out of my mind, I can’t think what her name was.
You’ll think of it later.
I will, yes.
How did your diet change when you moved here?
Good question. I think we all put a little weight on; the olive oil, the tapas. I can honestly say I ate more fruit, more salads, more vegetables, but also there I bought and ate more chorizo and rice. I mean, it did change. I didn’t eat so much sweet stuff here, where in England you’d have cups of tea and cakes. That was when you would meet with your American friends because the Americans always seemed to know how to make lovely cakes and biscuits and cookies in those days.
So how did you spend your free time back when you moved here? You might not have had that much of it because you had two young children immediately, but perhaps you did have some?
My spare time? Well, I liked dancing, so the first thing I did was learn Spanish Sevillanas. That was important to me. I loved it. I also liked exercise. In the Club, Jane Fonda was in fashion, so one of the Consul General’s wives, Martha Clark, she in her home opened it up and we had a group of women from the Club who’d go, I think twice a week, and do exercise there. We’d follow the cassette of Jane Fonda, so I was always exercising, swimming.
So Martha Clark, what was the name of her husband?
Martha Clark and Fred was it? Fred Clark or was that Gigi and…
It’ll come to you.
Memories, memories, I tell you, I can see them. Martha, yes, Martha Clark and Fred Clark, was it? I don’t know, they had two, they had a girl and a boy. Before them there was a Chilean wife of a Consul General and her name was Gigi and she also became very involved with the Club.
What was her husband’s name? Do you remember that one?
Well, I’m wondering if his name was Fred. This can be a very confusing interview. I’m sure someone who knows will suddenly say, hey, it wasn’t that, it was that.
That’s okay, it doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t matter.
So how have your interests changed over time? Still like dancing, exercise?
I still like dancing. I go off to have a dance class maybe once a week just for fitness and because I like dancing. I’m not saying I’m going to be a dancer or anything. I just love it for myself and also exercise. I’ve belonged to a couple of gyms here, Pilates, so I’ve got my own little routine which I do at home, and I swim.
Do you have any other activities that keep you busy?
Talking to my friends. I like to invite, and we have lunch and that’s good for me. I read books on tape because I have an eye problem, and I don’t see. So I’ve got an Alexa, I don’t want to mention her name because I listen to Radio 4 a lot, which is interesting. I listen to interesting documentaries, and what else can I tell you?
Now we’re finishing the part of the interview about adapting to life when you came here. Is there anything else that you’d like to add?
Way back when with less people, I think it was it was quieter. So of course, you could meet people in the center, walk around, and you got invited to people’s houses more. A lot of the military wives lived on the base, and we’d get invited there or I don’t think people interact so much opening up their houses.
I’ve been thinking, and I think the names that I said, it was Gigi and Fred, and then it was Martha and John Clark. Just remembered that.
AWC—The American Women’s Club of Seville
So now I’d like to talk a little bit about life in the American Women’s Club. You mentioned that you joined when you were about 24 years old, is that right? Correct. And you said that Joann de Kanter invited you to a luncheon and Maribel Dils gave you a warm welcome. What other first impressions did you have that day?
Well, I tell you, the American Women’s Club, to me, was like a lifesaver really because suddenly I’m in contact with all these English-speaking people, and it just made life here more comfortable, more exciting really because you could talk to people and realize they had the same little hiccups in their lives that I was feeling. It was great to have that support of someone to talk to.
Do you remember any of the other first events that you went to?
Well, I told you that we used to have a children’s group together and have coffee. One of the first events—well, we had white elephant sales in the Consulate grounds, book clubs, and book sales, bring them by. And of course, the potluck was always good. I did have potlucks at home, but that’s a very American phrase, potluck. And I loved it where everybody used to bring something, and we’d all join in. And, of course, we went to people’s houses in those days rather than restaurants.
How often did you have a luncheon at your house?
Well, because I’ve got a garden, I had quite a few. People would have a set-up group. They’d come and we’d put the tables in the garden and get it all sorted. Afterwards, there was always a clear-up group. If not, the Club would always pay for someone, a maid or something, to do all the clearing up. So quite a lot really.
Do you remember any one particular food that was often served at the parties at your house?
A chili con carne. I wasn’t in charge in cooking them because Jacquie made chili and so did Joann de Kanter, their recipes. I just gave the house so that they could cook in it.
That was Joann de Kanter and Jacquie Kowalsky?
They were very involved in doing chili con carne and delicious. Jacquie is a great chef.
So let’s move on to talk about the various groups within the American Women’s Club. Which ones might you have been involved in? Which sort of subgroups or activities? Maybe the children’s group?
For the children’s group in those days, we would go to each other’s houses and join the children together. It wasn’t an actual Club group. After that, the children’s group did become quite formed about 10 years ago, 15 years ago. But then my children were all older.
Do you remember being on the American Women’s Club Board?
The first thing I did was hospitality and corresponding secretary. And I said, “Oh my goodness, what does that mean?” And they said, “You just have to talk to people, greet them.” And I was quite good at that. And I remembered that was important when I joined the Club. It made me feel very welcomed. And another thing I want to mention about the Club—in those days, we didn’t have mobiles. We just had house phones. So it was very difficult. It was very different in talking to people, you know. Not like today, everybody’s got their phone, and they’re talking to everybody on their phone all day or WhatsApping. No, we didn’t have that. One thing I did do was I did have my name in the Consulate for a few years. So when anyone used to come to Seville and they’d say, “Are there any groups?” They would point to the board and say, “Yes, there’s someone there who would tell you about the American Women’s Club.” That was me. And it was interesting because after that a few years, we did bring a book out. And it was mainly because the questions that people were asking me—“Schools, where can you go for this? What do you do about that?” That I thought, ahh. So we had a group and, in fact, Christie was very involved, and they would put all this information that I was giving to people on the phone and made a book, which helped a lot of visitors to Seville.
What year was that book and what year were you the hospitality secretary?
Hospitality, I would say was about ‘89. ‘92 I was president. But when I was president, I had a very good board who did lots of, most of the work. I just used to preside the meetings and maybe would have the meeting here at my house or maybe we would go to someone else’s house and have the meetings.
So you had the meetings in people’s houses. What was the board meeting like?
The first board meetings you went to, everyone would sort of talk a lot, and you had to get the luncheon, someone be in charge of getting the luncheon. Let’s talk about something else now. And when I became president, I wrote everything down, wrote everything down on a piece of paper. And I’d say, number 1, we’re going to talk about this, number 2, we’re going to talk about that. So it made the board meeting a little bit easier. But it was written all by hand and then the newsletter was just on one sheet of paper. The luncheon was the most important, then the trip was important, and if there were any comments, you’d also maybe write down new members of the Club. It was simple. Today, I believe, it’s a little bit more intense, a newsletter. More work.
You mentioned trips. Where did you go?
We were very lucky we got invited a lot of the times by Spanish people who had like una venta, big houses. They would invite us out for lunch and show them castles. I’m sure that someone like Barbara Guidera would have told you all about those Spanish ladies. We had someone called Araceli Benjumea who was in the Club, and she was always trying to arrange for us to go and visit someone she knew. We would maybe share cars and go to these places. We didn’t have arranged buses.
You mentioned that your role was hospitality secretary. We don’t have that role today.
No, hospitality and corresponding secretary, because you usually end up having to say thank you to these people. Or if someone was ill in the Club and you knew about it, you would go and visit them with a bunch of flowers or ring them to say, “How are you?” There was that sort of thing because remember we were a smaller group and anyone who was involved with the Club became like a family in a way, whereas you would try and make everyone feel welcome.
So you had the role of hospitality secretary, you had the role of president. Do you remember other roles that you had?
Second vice president. I think one year I did luncheons, and that’s about it.
What can you tell me about the charity committee of days gone by, way back then?
I think we supported in those days so much percent of the dues and we had white elephant sales and book sales. I remember also another thing that I shall always remember is we were invited to Morón to the base and, of course, we were given a very nice luncheon. Then we had a demonstration on what they do when a plane comes in in an emergency landing, and they sprayed the tarmac with this foam (that must have cost a fortune actually), but they showed us how a plane lands on this foam. I shall always remember that, you know, something you’ll never see again, hopefully. So the ladies on the base, they were very involved. They used to come in to Seville, which was another nice thing that used to happen. And some of the trips we went on, we went to see the horses at Jerez and a bodega. We went once to a bodega. The normal touristy things they do today, actually, we did them then. But maybe we had someone from the family of the bodegas who might have given us a little talk or something. In those days, you got that little family touch about it, because somebody knew somebody. But yeah, that’s what I can say about what we used to do.
You mentioned that the newsletters were one page long and that we didn’t have cell/mobile phones back then. We had our landlines. Was communication really difficult?
Communication, it was telephone really. I even remember in those days I used to write letters to my family. We’d get a phone call. The Telefónica (the phone company) gave you a deal where after 8 o’clock you could ring England for a quarter of an hour. But if you went over that quarter of an hour, then the quote would really go up. So, that was quite good because before I used to have to book a call to England to be able to speak to my parents. I mean, it was very difficult in those days, communication. You wrote letters more.
So how did you RSVP for an event?
For an event, you rang. Someone was chosen to take orders. So, you would have a number to ring. And I was always being the person you rang to, of course. So, you would write down their names. If it was a luncheon, if it was a trip. That’s how we did it. Then who was organizing the luncheon would be involved in telling the restaurant how many people were going. That’s how it was done.
Now, about the charity, we mentioned that a few minutes ago, but do you remember what charities we supported?
In Rochelambert there was a children’s—I don’t know if it’s an orphanage, we used to support them a lot, and we used to take them toys and things at Christmas.
Was that called Sonrisa de un Niño?
Yes, it was.
So we still work with them today.
Really? Yes. So that’s one of those. Then in the center, there were the nuns.
Was that called Pozo Santo?
Pozo Santo. That was for old people, if I remember, retired old people, Pozo Santo. There was a group that’s been more recent, I remember, Linda Martin and Margaret Broster. They were involved in making curtains. The Club gave them money to make curtains for Pozo Santo to make it a little bit more cheerful. At Christmas, they would ask the nuns for a list of the things that they needed and Linda and Margaret would go off and buy it and they’d wrap it up, make them into presents and take them at Christmas for these old people that lots of them nobody would visit. And that’s what the Club did and also supported that, which I think was a very, I think the older you get, you realize that, if you’re on your own, it must be very sad and to receive some gift at Christmas—slippers, cologne, you know, shaving stuff. It was, yeah, pajamas, those sort of things. There was another nuns in the center that we used to support. I think, actually, where one of the members now lives. Hermanitas de los Pobres. I think she actually lives there. They have some apartments. An older member? Maria Cubero. Exactly, yeah, that’s her. She was very involved with charity before, so you know, now she’s being handed out.
So how does the American Women’s Club raise money for charity? Or how did we?
I was going to say did, was events, white elephant sale, book sale, cake sale. You know, everyone was keen to, you know, we’ll do this. And the money was what we would put towards charity. I mean, I don’t know today, but the dues that people paid, so much of it had to go towards charity. Is that right? They do.
Do you remember a white elephant sale where it was held?
I had one here. Yeah, I had one here. There was one at the Consulate where we used to have them too. And who else’s house? I know we had a bake sale at Hilary Smellie’s house. And that brought in a lot of money too.
Were there raffles? How did that work?
Raffles at every luncheon we would have. And yeah, that was how we made our money. For charity, of course. Do they still have raffles? Not really.
Sometimes, yes. Do you remember some events that were held at the Consulate other than the white elephant?
The Christmas party was always there. Well, that was when we had the agents there, the consular agent was there, they would always open up their house, and we’d have a Christmas party there. Maybe we would buy the Christmas tree for them. I remember Sally Duque bringing in a Christmas tree once, and then we would decorate it. And, we would have the party there. It was very glamorous.
Were partners invited to the Christmas party?
Yes, of course, yes.
It was at night or in the day?
Yes, at night.
And was it catered or potluck or?
I have a feeling that we used to potluck it. Or there would be a few from the Club that would do the cooking. Yes, I do remember. I have a feeling that it could have been catered once or twice, too.
Do you remember any Christmas baskets?
I do remember the Christmas baskets in recent years that, because Linda Martin used to put them together, because she was always involved with charity. Our Christmas parties then were a lot of fun. We went carol singing and Liz Enright would open up one of her restaurants. Do you remember that, Christie? And yes, that was always a success.
What was the name of her restaurant?
I’m trying to think. Well, she had Flaherty’s. We always would have the Thanksgiving there.
Flaherty’s Irish Pub that was beside the cathedral?
That’s correct. And then they had another one, Los Perdigones, they used to open up for Christmas parties which is down by the river, further out a little bit, tiny bit.
Over near the Macarena neighborhood maybe?
And they always used to decorate it with lots of lights, make it very Christmassy. That was a lot of fun there, very good food. Sadly, it’s not open anymore.
Do you remember any other Thanksgiving luncheons?
No, because it’s a very American celebration and in family, I had been invited to various houses to celebrate Thanksgiving. We don’t do that in England, so which was very nice. But, I love the way that they seem to celebrate it more than Christmas. It’s important to Americans, isn’t it? So, that was great because, of course, the Club has various nationalities, which is also making it very interesting.
Who were the members that you were closest to at the beginning or that you met with regularly?
I think that was Sara. Sara Puig Troupe. And maybe the people who lived here in Santa Clara in those days, a lot of the people who still work for the base and since then maybe Airbus, they’re able to rent places here. So maybe I had more of a network here in Santa Clara in those days. And apart from the Club, you have luncheons with people you’ve known for a long time like Barbara Guidera, and Gaye would also open her house up once a year, and they would do a BBQ, and everyone would take a salad, and we’d swim in her pool. That was great fun too.
That was an AWC event at Gaye Sánchez Pizjuán’s house in Alcalá?
Exactly. And of course, Joann de Kanter, she opened up her house always for people to go over there and have a potluck luncheon. Joann de Kanter also, she had like a little school. Students would follow an American system and that was American families who came with children and they had a little school at her house. That’s why she was so open to invite people to come over. She was very involved with theater, and she would put a little play on, too. So that was good.
You previously mentioned that you made an agenda for the board meetings. After the board meeting was finished, did anyone type up or write up any minutes to summarize what was decided?
There was, I mean, there must have been in the archives, but I know it’s all been destroyed. I know a lot of them also were handwritten. Not everybody had a typewriter. So in those days things were handwritten more than typed.
Do you know what would have ever happened to those agendas or minutes?
Well, I do know Joann did have a lot of them. We went over to try and sort it out one day, a group of us. Then it was handed into the Consulate, and they had a cupboard in the consulate that was full of papers of the American Women’s Club. And then I don’t know where it all went. It all sort of disappeared. Nobody really was interested, I think, in keeping all the papers. Sad, really. Is there any, have they kept any papers anywhere?
There are some, yeah.
Has it been put on a pen?
On the American Women’s Club website, there’s actually a historical section where you can find all the old newsletters back to 1993 at least.
Good. That’s good. It’s quite interesting to look at what they did in those days.
So how did being a member of the American Women’s Club affect your experience of life here? How does it, how did it and how does it affect your life?
It gave me something to look forward to once a month, go out to a luncheon or a trip. It gave me lots of friends. I’ve known so many people that have come in and out because we had Gillette here, we had Cruzcampo. There were a lot of families who came from England because Guinness was very involved. I think that was in ‘91, ‘92. So I made some friends who I’m still in contact with and lots who you were very friendly with and they just disappeared because they went back to their old life. Today I can say I have still got friends that I met when I first came here, and they’re great friends. And maybe I don’t go to the luncheons anymore, but I do have luncheons with lots of people I’ve known through the Club, and they live here in Seville. So it’s been very important to me for meeting people. And I think that when I was younger, I needed it. Maybe today I don’t because I’ve been here a long time, I’m one of the oldies here. But it’s a great way of feeling part of something. And if you need to know anything, you can always call someone, and they’ll help you. They’ll tell you. So to me, it has been great. I’ve made lots of friends.
Mari Carmen, what do you think that you have brought to the American Women’s Club?
What have I brought to the American Women’s Club? History, because I’m one of the oldies. I mean, it changes. Life changes. The American Women’s Club has changed. But I don’t think I’ve brought much to it. Maybe just a bit of history.
Did your husband participate in many AWC events?
No. In fact, I have a feeling they used to think, have you really got a husband? We never see him. Spanish, you see, they didn’t really get involved. So no, he might have put his face out when I was here with the members. So no, he didn’t.
Do you think it’s important that it’s a club for women?
Yes, because they did have a men’s club here in Seville. I don’t know if they still do, a long time ago. But yes, I think it is. It’s a woman’s club, yes.
Is there anything else that you’d like to say about the American Women’s Club before we move on and talk about a few other things? I mean, at some point in the rest of the interview, if you think about something that you want to say, we can definitely jump in and talk about it.
Okay, yeah, well, no, I don’t think, we’ll see what happens.
Changing World
Then let’s carry on and let’s talk about the changing world in Seville. How has life in Seville changed since you moved here?
Well, I spoke about the telephone and the communication. That really has changed because I think the American Women’s Club to me was very important because you met a lot of people. Today it’s changed that I can actually, on my telephone, Skype my grandchildren in England. So that’s changed. My way of life has changed. And in those days, you didn’t have that instant control of being in contact with your family. So the American Women’s Club became your family in a way. being able to speak, especially because I was married to a Spaniard. And a lot of my friends here were the same. They were married to Spaniards. They had their children. So you’ve become very united because you’ve got the same problem. It’s not a problem. Circumstances. So that’s changed.
Has shopping changed?
Of course. We’ve got a little local shop where I live in Santa Clara that you can go to the supermarket and chat to the same old grocer, but there are too many big supermarkets, very impersonal now, I suppose. I’ll tell you another thing that I remember when I came to Seville. I went to the butcher’s to buy some meat. And when I arrived there, not only were these chickens hanging up with their feet and heads on, which I thought, oh my God. And then the meat that was displayed, you didn’t know what it was, just lumps of meat. And that was a shock for me. And then when you ask for a chicken, they bring it down and they chop the head off and the feet and they say, “Do you want them?” Thank you. And that’s changed, of course. And in fact, when I used to go back to England, I’d be amazed just to look at a butcher’s shop. Everything was so neat. And the fish shop. I never saw a fish with a head on in England. It was always cleaned, the merluza, everything was all sort of white fish, all nice and clean and skinned, bit of plastic parsley in the window decorating it. And when you go shopping, well, even today, you go to the market, you know, there’s the fish with its head on and yeah, that’s changed. You go to a butcher’s and the meat looks good, it looks all clean and sliced up and it’s written what it is and yeah, that’s really changed here.
Do you think the healthcare has changed?
Healthcare. Well, yes, I suppose so. You had your local doctor in those days, it seemed quite easy. I’ve always been very lucky with the Spanish healthcare here. I can’t say anything bad about it. So, of course, the fact that you can ring for an appointment or you can speak to your doctor online on a telephone conversation that’s good, whereas before you couldn’t. The chemists are more equipped with more information. Another thing, of course, you can buy more today. I mean, I used to go back home to England, and I’d be saying, “Oh I want this, I want that, I’ve got to take this back with me because I’m missing it.” But now you can buy anything here. You can find everything. I would bring back cheese, I would bring back bacon, biscuits, all sorts of spices, but you can find anything you want now in the big supermarkets. So the only thing I miss is ginger nuts, which are caster sugar. My sister comes, and she said, “Oh my goodness, you know, this sugar isn’t caster sugar,” you know, to make cakes. I said, “It works out the same.” But you know, you can find everything here now, whereas before maybe it was more difficult.
What impact do you think the metro has had on Seville?
Well, it works really well. I think, especially for my friend Linda who lives in Montequinto, she’s on a line, and it brings her into the center and Liz, who lives out at Expo, she gets in. It brings everyone into the center, yes. I think it works well.
What about crime in Seville? Do you think Seville is a safe town these days and was it safe 30 years ago?
30 years ago, well, I’d say 20 years ago, there was a lot of bag snatching, and I had my bag snatched like a lot of people. There were a lot of windows being smashed and lights, and I think that was a problem, and you really learnt not to leave anything showing in a car. I go back to England, and I’m always saying, “Oh, put this in the boot, put this under the seat,” and they say “Why?” They don’t feel that danger of hiding things in a car that they might get into your car. They used to steal your radio cassettes. Of course, today that doesn’t matter because everyone’s got their radio on their phone. So I think today it’s mainly telephones that get robbed. Yeah? Pickpockets maybe.
What about cultural events? Is there more going on? Or fewer activities? Or how has that changed?
Oh, I think there’s more going on, isn’t there? I mean, the theater changed the life here in Seville. They have concerts, and they’re always having concerts in the gardens of the Murillo Park. Is that where they have summer concerts too? And I mean, yeah, they’re always having exhibitions. I think today there’s a lot of information for tourists to go and visit things in Seville. So I think there’s more to see.
What about the museums, the theater and the dance? Has that changed a lot?
Oh, there’s more, I think. When I was here at the beginning, used to go to Lope de Vega and see shows there. That was used more I think. But now with the Maestranza concerts and shows there, yeah, I think that’s changed.
Do you think the quality of life in Seville is good?
Quality of life. I think everyone would say yes, apart from the fact there’s more people, more tourists. But I think it’s good.
You mentioned earlier that you go back to England twice a year. What do you miss the most about England?
What do I miss? I think, now I’m older, family. Being with the family, to me, it’s important. And this English weather, of course. It’s what us English talk about, and I quite enjoy it. When I was there this time it snowed. We had constant rain. The sun did shine, but I used to go with my sister on some beautiful walks in the Cotswolds. You’d wrap up warm, wear, you know, scarves and hats and boots, whereas you don’t need that here in Seville. So there’s something energizing about doing it, you know?
Let’s talk about Seville’s Holy Week at Easter, the Semana Santa. How has it changed?
Well, I know there’s more people in Seville. I haven’t been for a few years now to Semana Santa, because I would go every year. I love Semana Santa, the music, the going round and seeing the pasos. It was part of life here. And yes, I enjoyed it. I have spent all night standing with my husband waiting for a paso. I’ve sat on one of those chairs forever, waiting for the paso. And I’ve ran from one paso to another. I’ve done all sorts of things you’re meant to do. And when you’re with a group of people, they’ll say, “Oh, we’ve got to go here now because I don’t know, La Paz is coming out, and we can watch it round this corner.” I’ve done all that and I’ve got some wonderful memories of listening to saetas and the smell of the incense, and I enjoyed it. So it means a lot to me. I must admit Seville is special because family from Valencia came. I think it was the first day of Easter, Palm Sunday, right? And we came to see the procession in the center. And they were absolutely amazed how the young people, young boys, will put their suits on and they’d look so elegant, even when they’re in their late teens, early 20s. They still have this custom of dressing up on that day. I don’t know if they still do it because I haven’t been. But that’s one of the things they noticed that here in Seville, there was an elegance about Semana Santa. I mean, I remember walking around with heels with some other ladies, my feet, honestly. Now, today you can wander around with a very nice dress on and your trainers. It’s acceptable. That’s changed.
How has Seville’s April Fair, the Feria, changed?
How’s it changed? It always used to start earlier, then, it started later in the day. Paco would want to get there early in the morning, so we’d arrive about 12:30 or 1:00. Nobody in the fair, but we’d get our seat, we’d sit down, and watch the fair begin. And just to watch all the horses and the girls arrive, 2:00, 3:00, just lovely, 4:00. And now you arrive at 1:00, and it’s just full already, I think.
Do you dress up for the fair and dance?
I did. For the last four years, I haven’t been to the fair, but I used to go every year. And yeah, I realized that wearing a dress, you feel more part of the celebration. And I love wearing a dress, and I do dance.
Let’s talk about some major events and traditions in Seville’s history. For example, the end of Franco. How did life before and after Franco differ?
Well, I’d just arrived to Seville really. I came in ’73 so I couldn’t understand why you couldn’t have a party in your house without asking permission, because you weren’t allowed to have more than so many people. It was as if you were having some sort of meeting, so you had to tell the police. I didn’t realize about that one. And I don’t know. You saw more Guardia Civils on the street with their guns and their flat hats. You don’t see that today. And they were someone to be a little bit respectful of in those days. The Spanish people were a little bit wary of the Guardia Civil. And afterwards? No, I can’t say much about it. I sometimes think I was just so involved with my family, I didn’t notice anything happening outside.
How about the World’s Fair, which happened in Seville in 1992? We refer to it as the Expo. What memories do you have of that?
Oh my. Well, I tell you what, I think it was the most amazing fair. And we got season tickets, and I had quite a few visitors. We’d take them to the fair, and I just loved it. And I feel terrible that I missed so much. So much was going on and I think it was amazing what I did see, but I realized there was so much going on that I missed, you know? It was just very special.
Did you participate in any events during that year?
Well, I was the president in ‘91, so it was just before the handover. But there was so much going on. My daughter, she worked at the African Pavilion. It was good, and she enjoyed it because she knew English, Spanish and a little French. So she was able to be there. And no, I didn’t participate in anything.
Mari Carmen, did you, many years ago or, do you now know anyone from the American air bases?
No.
Have you ever been to the bases?
Yes, I’ve been to Morón.
On the base itself?
I told you we had lunch in there with the ladies. They invited us and they gave us an exhibition, the tarmac.
Was it hard to get onto the base as far as paperwork? I mean, this group of women coming, not military?
I think we might have had to give our names and nationality. It was a long time ago. So, I’m sure the sort of general who was, if it’s called a general, working in the base wife, had it very easy for us to get in. I can’t remember any problems there.
Are there any other big events that happened in Seville that you think are worth mentioning?
I’m sure you’re going to talk to Liz, but when it was the Jubilee, we’d have a little celebration at her pub, us English-speaking people. The wedding, I think. English nationality. Yeah, British. You know, because it’s like an American Women’s Club, but there were a lot of Brits in that Club. I don’t know about now, how it’s doing, but what can I think of? The Queen came to Seville, and that was quite an event.
When was that?
I can remember her coming, but I can’t remember what year it was. Yes, like 30 years ago or even more. I think the fact that they’ve built the SE30 so that you’ve got the ring road going around Seville, that really did change everything for Seville. It took the traffic out of Seville, and I think that was good. Although now even the tranvía stopped people walking along where the tranvía goes, driving in to the center. I think that has made a difference to Seville. That’s good. I’ve been on the boat trip going up and down the river. All these touristy things we’ve done when you live here. Although I think when you live in a place, you take it for granted because this is where you live.
Work
Mari Carmen, let’s talk about something new. Let’s talk about your work history. Have you had a job? Have you worked?
Have I worked? I’ve been a mother and a housewife and a wife. Yes, I worked a little bit in England before I came, but it was only a year, I suppose, in an office. Office work. I started as office junior. I went and did a course on how to type shorthand, which you had to know in those days, which today I don’t think they use, do they? It was a big company, Smith’s Aviation. My father worked there, and he said, “I’ve got you a job until you decide what to do.” So, in fact, I made a lot of friends there and then is when I decided to come to Spain.
Well, Mari Carmen, I’m going to start to close our interview with a few questions. How would you sum up your experience of being a member of the American Women’s Club?
I will always be a member because I feel as if it’s part of my life here in Spain, being a member of the American Women’s Club. It certainly has found me lots of friends, and it was a lifesaver when I first came. I think they do good deeds, which is great. They help others.
Is there anything that you are particularly proud of when it comes to your involvement in the group?
Now I think I have sort of stepped back, retired, we could say. I’m an older member, so now I don’t think I’m particularly important to the Club. But maybe in the past I felt very involved, and everyone gets to know everybody, and it was like a big family. I think the family has become very big now and a little bit like most families, it’s spread out more. Are there lots of little groups of new people doing different things? Yes? Is that what the Club’s a bit like now? A lot of people helping and giving, I mean, I don’t know how many board members there are, but there are lots of jobs in the Club now, aren’t there? Yeah, where it was simpler in my day.
Mari Carmen, do you think you overall made a good decision in coming here to Seville?
Oh gosh, yes. Definitely.
You don’t ever regret coming here?
No, not at all. This is my home.
Have you ever thought about going back?
No, because I visit England a lot, and I can stay there for periods of time, seeing I have my daughter who is living there and my sister. So, no, I don’t regret being here, and I don’t think of going back. Well, I do go back. Not to live. To visit, maybe stay for longer periods of time, which is, you know, three months is quite a long time.
Mari Carmen, what have we not talked about today that we should cover in this interview?
What haven’t we talked about? That’s a question. I feel as if I’ve talked about or rambled on about lots of things. And like you, Christie, I’ve known you for a long time. I mean, you know, I’ve made lots of friends in the American Women’s Club who I still have now. What I did notice that a lot of people here, they have their time to be really involved and make a difference to the Club in a way, but it lasts a year, maybe two years, and then their lives move on. Okay, but we’re still involved because we live here in Seville. But maybe we’ve forgotten a little bit about when we were so involved. Like I remember Linda Martin, she really made the charity important when she became the charity chairman. You know, she was president one year, and the following year she decided to take the charity, and she did a lot for charity. So, you know, I think people do a lot for the Club, and then they move on and maybe they’re forgotten. I don’t know. Sara also was very involved. She was president. Do I know anyone? You’ve been president. Let me see. There are so many of us that have been very involved in the Club, but maybe when we’ve needed it, and now we’re still, you know, involved with people from the Club, but we just don’t need it as much as we used to.
Anything else you’d like to add that we haven’t talked about?
I don’t think so. Have we covered most things? I’m very happy to talk about in the future if you need any information or if I think of something or anyone wants to ask me anything, here I am.
Thank you so much. That’s really generous for you to offer. So how has it felt for you to participate in this project?
Oh, it was a surprise, but I feel, yeah, it’s good. I feel it’s very interesting. Information is always good to give for people who’ve come and they don’t know what the Club was all about and the things we used to do. Yeah, I think it could be good.
Thank you so much, Mari Carmen. With this, we are ending our interview today. We certainly appreciate your participation.
Not at all. I’ve enjoyed it.
Okay. Thank you.
Bye.